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Wednesday, 12 September 2012
P1 only combos
Back in April, Isedelica demonstrated some top-tier, broken applications for Joe's Shocking Pink assist glitch. At the time I was playing far too much SFxT and didn't look into it or appreciate it as much as I should have.
Basically, if you block Joe's Shocking Pink assist in the middle of a combo you can call it again for free. This is the only assist with this property.
About a week ago after getting back into UMvC3, I wondered if it might be something you could exploit in actual gameplay and maybe something I could include in my team.
Initially, I though it definitely was. It's far too easy to use it to extend combos and build extra meter. Plus, it actually creates true infinite combos. I'm sure there are a bunch of undiscovered ones and Spencer's (a character I already use) is easy to set-up and something that can be done consistently.
Then a few days ago I was trying to do some set-ups with P2 in training mode and after spending a few minutes wondering why I sucked so much I realised that it didn't work. I have absolutely no explination as to why this is the case but it's clear that the actual bomb blast affects P1 and P2 in different ways.
UMvC3 deals with the point character being hit or blocking an attack in the middle of a combo in a very odd way. In the standard shocking pink combos, the bomb blast doesn't add to the combo counter. I think it's safe to assume that this is because hitting the opponent adds 1 hit but blocking the bomb negates it. So it's as if the bomb didn't hit at all and Joe can be called again immediately. If you have traning stats on screen you'll also notice that the bomb blasts don't register any damage either for the same reason. However, when 2P does the same thing, the hit does register and you're unable to call Joe again until the combo ends.
So 1P can do loops and infinites that P2 can't. Meaning that you could practice up and be able to whip out some broken combos and loops but if you're forced to be P2 at a tournament or online, then you wouldn't actually be able to use them.
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I think I may have just understood... the problem is about an event that happens at the same time: In programming when 2 things have to happen they NEVER can happen at the same time and some task is always given a priority.
ReplyDeleteFor the game this translates to "who got hit first".
Now is there a difference for WHEN the assist using character got hit? Was he hit while his opponent was already grounded or when his opponent was already on the air.
If priority goes to the comboer then he gets hit first and the combo actually re-starts, giving him the chance to do it again because the combo things that the combo SHOULDN'T go on.
If it goes to the comboie then the comboer gets hit after the opponent is on the air and the assist won't come back until the time when he SHOULD because the game things that the combo CAN go on.
In other words... the combo actually works as it should when done by player 2. This also might explain the difference on the combo hit count, since player 1 get's hit by the bomb, the game doesn't bother to update the counter because the combo should have ended but it COUNTS the hit on player 2 because the opponent was hit first.
Do you think this is what happens?
Yeah, it's definitely true that when P2 does it, the game is working as intended. It's like a P1 exclusive glitch.
DeleteSo yeah, maybe when it happens at the 'same time' priority is always given to P1 and although it's the same frame, the game counts as P2 always being hit first? then P1 is hit and the bomb blast doesn't count. The other way around however, P2 is hit first and the bomb blast acts as normal...
lol, I have no idea. Awesome theory though.
As amazingly odd as this is, it's true that in MvC3 blocking a character's hit erases all the hits from that character in the current combo. There was some video with Joe doing a combo into DHC, then the next character blocking Joe's assist and having like 20 hits drop off the combo counter. (It also resets damage scaling, which is why the point character blocking a multihit super while the assist gets hit does so much damage to the assist - no scaling because it is blocked each time.) So this explanation makes total sense.
DeleteThe game always has to check the hits in some definite order, and for reasons too complicated to go into here it is a better idea to check the victims in reverse order from the attackers, like so:
for (attacker = p1 first character up to p2 last character)
{
for (victim = p2 last character down to p1 first character)
CheckHit(attacker vs victim)
}
This would mean that for P1, P2's point is hit by the bomb blast and then a few loops later P1's point blocks it, erasing that hit and all the consequences. This is all in the same frame, so no hit or damage is added to the counter after all the checks are complete. But for P2, P2's point blocks the bomb, erasing all the...no consequences, and then P1 is hit by it, locking Joe's assist and adding a hit to the combo meter.
You could further explore this by having P2 do a Joe combo into the next character calling Joe's assist. P2 blocking the bomb should still negate all the hits that Joe contributed, but also end up locking his assist out and otherwise working "normally". That'd pretty much prove this is why this happens.
Desk, sera que esse 'bug' so acontece no Modo Treinamento? Em Mortal Kombat eu meio que sindo que o jogo não se comporta da mesma maneira entre o 'Modo Versus' e 'Modo Historia'. Eu posso estar falando merda pois eu não sou jogado de MvC...
ReplyDelete---------------------------------------------
Desk, will be that this 'bug' only happens in Training Mode? In Mortal Kombat I kind Sindo that the game does not behave the same way between the 'Versus Mode' and 'Story Mode'. I may be talking nonsense because I'm not playing MVC...
100% confirmed in vs mode, good thinking though. I made sure to check since this whole 1P/2P thing is so odd.
DeleteHi Desk, I've been following your blog for a little over a year now and I've been nothing but impressed at the amazing execution and dedication that you have for the fighting games. I don't know exactly how to reach you other than on this blog. I truly am sorry that this comment has nothing to do with the video you posted, but I have to know how in the world is it possible to cancel Chun's hasanchu into Super. Note that I'm not talking about linking the super to the hasanchu after the move recovers. I'm talking about super canceling during the active/recovery frames. I've seen it done but can't figure how to get the charge. Thanks in advance for your help!
ReplyDeleteHey man, that's the overhead flipkick right? If I remember correctly you have to use the same charge (you can't charge again after hitting forward) I do remember it being tricky though. I'm planning to get a ton of SSFIV footage today anyway so when I'm messing about, I'll have a go, re-familiarize myself with how it's done and get back to you.
DeleteThanks a lot for the comments dude, much appreciated :)