Monday 20 February 2012

SFxT notes + teaser!




Below you'll find a bunch of things I noticed during my frustratingly brief period with Street Fighter x Tekken. First though, I have to give a big shout out to Dawgtanian, everyone at Capcom, the EX Dragon Project and Jamar aka zeextreme kid for all of their help. Onwards!!

It seems like there's been an effort to standardize hit boxes across most characters. Aside from cross ups and jump in heights, it doesn't seem like there will be a great deal of character specific combos/set-ups. Certainly nowhere near the amount present in SFIV. Good news for competitive and casual gamers, bad news for combo makers.

There's an interesting mechanic that only shows up when maxing out the combo counter. The game also gives you an awesome message if you can ever get to 99-hits but I don't want to ruin it here. Note: This is only ever an issue in 4-player scramble mode. And it's a good thing!

EX moves are generally super effective. A lot of characters even have loop-able patterns involving EX moves (ala Boxer's EX.Rush punch in SFIV). A good example of this is King's qcf+KK move that links into chains and then back into itself. Due to damage scaling, it's not often the best use of meter but it is fun and looks awesome.

Cross ups actually work more like SF2 and other fighting games now, rather than the backwards effect they had in the SFIV series. So you'll actually land closer to the opponent after a cross-up and be able to get slightly better combos.

The juggle system works a lot like SF3*, pretty much everything can juggle but there's a limit and points system for every move. Practically speaking, this equates to a lauching move - 3 medium attacks - then a special or super. This limit is reset after a tag cancel is performed. Interestingly, the reset doesn't just apply to the incoming character, it takes immediate effect on whatever the point characater was doing too. Also, activating Pandora does not reset the juggle limit
*note, the main difference here is that when starting a juggle combo, none of the subsequent moves will reset the opponent. They will always fall to their back.

Damage scaling is just as harsh as it was in SFIV, so shorter combos are generally more practical.

The stages are looooooong. Much longer than in SFIV and cornering your opponent is a still a big deal, even with the opponents ability to roll forward from knock downs.  

When activating Pandora, you're granted unlimited super meter. However, it acts a lot like 'refill' in training mode. So if you activate with no meter at all (maybe from a wall bounce, ready to continue the combo), you won't be able to immediately go into super or even an ex move. An ideal situation would be to set-up a pandora activation and continue the combo while your opponent is still grounded (using loop-able ex moves as mentioned earlier) but there have been extra efforts made to make this very, very difficult to actually pull off. You can't cancel into it like you would a special or super and the 2nd character always appears several steps back from the character activating Pandora.

The parry style counter mechanic (frwd+HP+HK while guarding) is really interesting. It appears that, although it mimics one of your EX specials (for example, performing the cross counter with Ryu activates a quick EX.Tatsu) there is no juggle opportunity afterwards. If you had you're opponents back to the corner, reacted to a blocked poke with the counter, you can't then juggle with super, it will simply whiff right through the opponent. However (and this is where it gets interesting), you can 'switch cancel' (MP+MK) the counter, which will immediately reset the juggle counter. Now, this whole process will cost you 2 stocks (one for the counter and one for switch cancel) but can lead to big damage and really turn things around. Now, that's all well and good but things really start to get interesting when the opponent tag cancels the initial poke. This can lead to their incoming character actually being able to punish the cross counter... unless of course that had been tag cancelled too. in which case your incoming character could technically punish their incoming character... or your head might explode first.

A few of the clips in the teaser were specially chosen to show 1 or 2 things that haven't been done/shown anywhere else before. There'll be a full, in-depth write up on all of this stuff when the vids go up.

If anyone has any specific questions feel free to post up. I'll do my best to answer everything I can from what I remember and my notes. Also, get hype!

NOTE: this post has been edited for clarity.

52 comments:

  1. ...Goddamn Desk lol i'll be back with questions, you've convinced me to sign up with a Google Blogger account thingy. I can finally stop being a shadow fan.

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  2. Is there a long-distance game (zoning) or is it just jumping in, activating the launcher, and repeating that? Thanks!

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    1. dont waste the mans time asking stupid questions.
      ABC launcher will not be used after the first week. Watch ANY of the high level footage that's been coming from FingerCramp, WNF or even Maximillian and you'd know that.

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  3. Does Juri's fireball storing/releasing mechanic work identically to SFIV?

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  4. Can´t wait to see what you came up with!

    Q: Have you tried the instant overheads? And can you (tag)combo after them?

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  5. Few quick questions:

    - Are DP shortcuts still in?
    - Are backdashes still invincible?
    - Can people still mash out of block strings?
    - Are walkspeeds really slower than they were in SFIV, or is it my eyes playing tricks on me when watching a few SFxT videos?

    Thanks. Can't wait for the videos!

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  6. Q: If one player's team is composed of two characters that need to be close to do the most damage (for example, two grapplers), then is zoning them out and laming them out a viable strategy for the opponent? Or does every character have a way of dealing with zoning?

    From what I've heard about this game's juggle system, it's probably going to have some crazy combos! I'm sure you're gonna blow everyone's mind when this video comes out.

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  7. First, I didn't get any time to really get into the competitive aspects of the game, I was really concentrating on system mechanics and combo stuff (plus no one can play yet). So, forgive me if some of this is a little vague.

    rmill2012 - There'll definitely be a long range game. A lot of the tekken characters have super effective ways to get around fireballs but max distance footsies will play a big role.

    venfayth - Yep, and 100 bonus points for anyone who manages to store and release a fireball mid-combo because I'm pretty sure there's a way to do it, lol.

    Ett - This is a weird one and something I didn't test as much as I wanted to. Most characters crouching hitbox will cause (for example) chun's jump back HK to whiff. However, if you do find any instant overheads, all jumping attacks can be switch cancelled immediately at the expense of 1 stock.

    Sant - I pretty sure they are still in but they're not as simple as they were in SFIV (I think it requires, at the minimum, 3 inputs now).

    Backdashes do have some invincibility.

    I guess but you can still do tight strings. Plus there's the extra option of the counter attack out of guard now too.

    I'm really not sure. Some characters have hella slow walk speeds like Heihachi but I guess Makoto did in SFIV too. So I couldn't say.

    UncleBibby - That's too broad a question for the time I got to actually play unfortunately (99% of which was alone in training mode). Some characters will have a better time than others getting in but the pay off is higher when you get there. It's just like any other 'Street Fighter' game. Of course the game allows you to choose 2 characters, so a viable strat might be to have a rush down character on point and a grappler 2nd. Then you can get in, land a combo and tag.

    It's going to be really interesting seeing how that plays out. As we don't know yet if having 2 slower but more powerful characters will be better than 2 zoning characters or one of each etc. I'm genuinely hyped to see what a match between 2 top-level players will look like after they've spent a bit of time with the game.

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  8. Do you feel like the game has good pressure? With throws being so bad, I either hope that there are lots of + frame normals, or that there are lots of good speed overheads that lead into decent damage.

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    1. Clarification: Anyone is welcome to respond to this, not just desk. I feel like Hugo has strong pressure and maybe some tekken characters do but I dont really know and I hate games where it is both hard to stay on someone and easy to stop mixup.

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    2. I know a lot of people have been saying stuff like throws are garbage now because they don't have as much range. You have to remember that you can still grab people pretty much as soon as they get off the ground or leave hit/block stun. Throws are definitely still a part of the game. The tekken characters in particular have a lot of safe normals and overheads that lead into juicy combos too.

      Also, something I forgot to mention earlier. There have even been steps taken to prevent huge kara throws too. Most moves you think would work (Ken's frwd+MK for example) only move you forward a few pixels and aren't very useful at all.

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  9. I noticed that you were performing some Personal Actions as Ling and Asuka. How do you do them in SFxT?

    Are the active times for gems in real seconds or in-game seconds?

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    1. Taunts are activated by hitting select/back.

      I'm not sure about the gems. I would assume it's in game seconds so you could plan accordingly but I'm not certain.

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    3. Thanks, bro! Keep up the good work (o_o)-b

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  10. Only thing missing what your thoughts on the Gem system and how it felt. Cool reads and shared with my friends ^_^

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  11. Hi, Doopliss here, and I have a few questions as well:

    -How does crumple work? Can you do a grounded combo like in SFIV or just juggle like in MvC3? Can you use it to combo into grounded grabs? Airgrabs? Can you use multiple ones in one combo? If you ground someone with crumple, does it reset juggle points?

    -Are airstrings still in? Haven't seen any in a long time, but haven't heard anything about their removal either.

    -Any infinites or legit combos that reaches 99 hits (no need to specify what, a simple yes/no will suffice)?

    -Without stringing, are there moves that can be cancelled by EX moves but not normal Special moves?

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    1. Hey man.

      Crumple works just like SFIV. There's a period during which you can combo into a standard ground string then after a set amount of time everything will juggle them instead. You can be thrown during the 'ground' period of the crumple. I'm 99% certain you can do it multiple times during a combo and if I had to guess, because they work so much like they do in SFIV, I'd say you could almost certainly jump into airgrabs from a crumple. I'm not sure if it's still possible to ground someone with a crumple, is it? I know Yoshimitsu used to be able to but it has since been removed.

      No air strings unfortunately. Aside from character specific target combos.

      No infinites, no 99-hit combos in the time I spent with the game.

      Good question but I'm not sure of the answer. I can't imagine there being any moves which would have that property but it's impossible to say without testing everything.

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    2. Oh, I thought Yoshimitsu was still able to. Sure he can't do it with EX poison breath?

      I figured as much. Too easy to do infinites on tall characters, especially with speed gems.

      Ok, good to know.

      I was just thinking that since moves that can otherwise not be cancelled into specials can be cancelled into EX during a string (Right? I'm not so sure anymore... XD), those moves might be EX cancellable outside of chains as well.

      Also, a question I forgot earlier, but I guess you answered yourself below: Can you do mid-combo counterhits with the EX charge dash-out?

      Well, I hope you had fun with the game, I'm so jealous right now XD

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    3. Yeah, I tested it. Even when having to spend meter I guess it was deemed too good.

      I'm not so sure about that dude, everything I tried was either special cancel-able to begin with or just didn't work into EX during a chain.

      Haha, I think combo vid people often have the same ideas. I'll answer that last one by saying, wait for the videos to go up :)

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    4. Dang it, I knew it was too good to be true D:

      I see, so Hugo can't do LMH xx EX Special then, I guess.

      Hehe, I figured as much ;)

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    5. Dude, Hugo can't even do LMH for the most part, lol. Sounds insane but his far HP/HK have too much start up now. I'm guessing that in earlier builds Hugo was silly top-tier.

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    6. Well, according to that Hugo guide released recently, you can use c.HK as the heavy and it will most likely connect. But still, c.LK xx c.MP xx EX Special or something will have to do.

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    7. I think that's point-blank only. His chains all whiff when you're at any realistic 'match' distance as far as I can remember. MP xx Clap, LMH-Launch I think was, again, deemed too good.

      I could be wrong but I remember being super disappointed when playing, as I'd seen some sick Korean match vids of him in an earlier build.

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  12. Good Writeup man but my question is how does the game feel?

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    1. In general it's really reqrding. Just putting together a solid combo and switch cancelling into a wall-bounce, super or hard knockdown is really satisfying + fun.

      It feels a lot like SFIV but just not as rigid. Many people have said it already but it does get closer to the freedom you have in marvel to create genuinely unique set-ups. Switch cancelling, dashing out of charged specials, creating your own counter-hit opportunities or safe raw tag set-ups etc.

      I really can't wait to get my retail copy.

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  13. After watching some videos of the gameplay it looks like the chain combos do far lesser damage than going for a linked normals into a launcher. Also hit pushback seems lesser than SFIV the combo potential from mid-screen seems higher.

    Waiting for those vids keep up the good work Desk :)

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  14. Speaking of crumple state, what about crumpling somebody, then charging up a special for the free counterhit mid combo and doing something fancy off that?

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  15. Thanks for answering my question and if I may ask another.

    Q: Have you tried the speed gems? I know they only effect walking speed and imagine they effect your juggle combos.
    But with them activated could you preform links you otherwise couldn't with single character combos or tag combos?

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    1. I can answer that. The only way you could use it in combos would be to walk better between jabs than normal or some kind of juggle that benefits from a faster jump arc. Also, if you have enough frame advantage to "link" a dash or need to move a long distance really fast, like maybe comboing from a full-screen fireball.

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  16. The song in the video! I've heard it before! What's the title of it?!

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  17. Awesome stuff desk. That remix of that truck stage is amazing so will you be releasing it ? If so, will it be out for SFxT release date.
    Thanks

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    1. Thanks man. I haven't decided just yet but you'll get the whole thing in the videos at the very least

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  18. In the gameplay I've seen, SF characters seem to be lacking in the bound (little ground bounce) department. Is that something that's mostly Tekken character exclusive? The only example for a SF character I can think of is comboing after Hugo's lariat. I was kind of hoping some SF characters would be able to take advantage of that mechanic as well as the Tekken characters can.

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    1. Yeah, the SF characters can use it but it mostly seems to be from a counter-hit. A quick example would be Zangief's jumping headbutt.

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  19. Dude! I cannot wait for your Chun-Li (and Cammy) combos!

    However, I must admit...
    I'm more excited for your remix of the "Pit Stop 189" (I think that's the name) BGM, which is my stage in SFxT, because it reminds me of Drive-in at Night, which is also my favorite stage in SFIV.

    Street Fighter x Tekken: March 6th, 2012 - February 26th, 2012
    /hype

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  20. Thanks man, and thanks for reminding me of the name of that stage because I do have to list that info in the vid and I totally couldn't remember, lol.

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  21. Great Stuff! Keep it Up
    i like the remix of the neon truck stage of the game
    now im imagining if you did the Cats' BGM or the Jurassic stage BGM


    which Street Fighter(excluding Chun Li :D ) and Tekken character did you enjoy the most?

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    1. I already feel like I'm just agreeing with other people who've got their hands on the game but Heihachi is really fun and seems really solid. It was cool playing Hugo, I loved Kazuya's mist step mechanic and laws juggles are too fun.

      I'd say I generally got more out of playing the tekken characters because I've never played tekken for more than a few minutes and a lot of them seem to be a bit more technical and have slightly more depth.

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  22. have you tired the scramble mode infinite?
    if you can get one or both of you oppnents in between your charters you can jab them non stop
    the stream with the scramble mode tourney with killerkai is were i herd this

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  23. i saw you messing with guile in the teaser. do you think he's got any chance of being viable? or does he feel like a dated character in this game? i'm theory fighting that if he still has fast recovery on booms, tekken characters are going to have similar problems getting in on him as dudley has in sf4.

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    1. also, do you feel it's going to be important to pick characters with long animations on their special moves for scoring big damage on tag cancels? for example, ken's tatsu holds the opponent in place for ages, allowing his tag cancelled partner time to do a jumping combo. and even in your video, i saw a clip of marduck doing a 360 that lasted so long enough for ryu to charge a full super (probably starting from an ex charge as that takes less time to reach super).

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    2. I do like guile but even when he's top-tier he's a dated character to me, lol. He doesn't have the same mid-screen combo options and hopefully that'll be a factor. Remember that some characters have FADC style armour moves that can be dashed out of too. Like I said, I am a fan of Guile but I'm personally hoping that he isn't top-tier.

      I think it'll be really useful for the characters who can exploit it (and some characters can get sooo much stuff from long animations, even mid-screen) but I don't think it'll be the difference between top/bottom-tier characters.

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  24. Desk - you say the Pandora activation leaves the incoming character a few steps back from the sacrificed character - how far exactly? I had been thinking of ways to exploit the 0 frame start up of pandora e.g. character 1 blocks a move that leaves opponent at -2 or -3 and close, activate pandora, in comes Gief and supers for the kill (assuming your opponent is less than 30-40%...the few steps back sounds like this won't fly?

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    1. Yeah, I'm not so sure it's 0 frame and there's absolutely no way you'd still be in range for any kind of grab. You wouldn't even get cr.MK with Ryu without walking (that's how far you get pushed back). Plus you can't cancel into Pandora like you would a special.

      I think if anyone is interested in trying to use pandora in a traditional 'SUPER' style way, they're going to have to get very, very creative.

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  25. hi desk.big fan right here.here are my questions plz answer.
    1)if i have only played sf would it be an advantage or a disadvantage?
    2)who(till now)u think is top tier
    3)how does my guy(rolento)feel?good?bad?overpowered?what?
    4)we heard u would go to evo 2012?do u have in mind entering both SSFIV AE and SFXT.
    5)there were a lot of rumors around the internet that u are a MACHINE or a ROBOT.so can u plz confirm that u are human because ur combos and music are INSAAAAANE.thanks in advance.

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    1. 1) The general system kind of favours SF players but the tekken characters are often so different that they're definitely harder for SF players to pick up. Tekken players might have a slightly harder time getting good but I can imagine them being really, really sick when they do.

      2) I honestly don't know, I didn't play any serious matches. I'm liking heihachi because he can get so much from his strings and overhead. However, his walk speed is awful and I'm not sure how easily he can get in.

      3) From what I hear, he's really good. He can link into is rekkas without spending meter and he gets silly juggles off them every time too. On top of his sick pokes and jumping attacks. Looks like he'll probably be a decent character.

      4) haha, I don't know how much to say or even what I'm doing yet. I'm flattered that anyone even cares though, lol.

      5) *smiley face*

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  26. Oh, since it's using the SF4 engine, do plinking and all the other tricks still work?

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    1. good question and yeah, it's still there and just as useful. I found I had to change the way I did EX specials now though, as I used to double tap all 3 buttons. Due to the easier inputs, this will now get a super with some motions.

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  27. Is b-linking still in as well? Looks like it's about time to mod my stick..

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    1. I'm really not sure. Taunting would have to have a lower priorty than jabs and I'm not sure if that's correct. Sorry I couldn't be more help dude.

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