I've never seen this demo'd and couldn't find any discussion about it being possible. So, here a video and some words.
This is an option select against backdashes and certain reversal options. If you opponent blocks or is hit, Zangief remains grounded and continues a combo or block string. if they back dash, Zangief will re-jump and instant air Ultra 2.
Some things to note, unlike a lot of other option selects, the frames you gain when the jump attack whiffs must be spent as economically as possible, otherwise the os will fail. By this I mean, the Ultra 2 input (in this case, from back to up-forward, held for a few frames) must happen late enough to allow Gief to re-jump but early enough so that, if the jump attack connects, the motion doesn't pre-buffer a running grab when you land (which will come out instead of the crouching short). So the actual input is...
j.HK, immediate 540 motion ending at up-forward (held), KKK, cr.LK... Exploit whichever option you ended up with (for Ultra 2, hold forward to catch the back dash. For a block, tick throw them for not back dashing).
Often you will have a huge window for error when option selecting with someone like Ryu but that is not the case here. This is even more true for the cr.LP variation @1:01. In this case you're exploiting the fact that a cr.LP can be chained well into it's active frames. So much so, that if you time it correctly and it whiffs, you can use those frames for an instant air Ultra2. The input for that variation is...
cr.LP, 540 motion ending at up-forward (held), KKK (this will either activate ultra or chain a st.LK), st.LK... At this point you can react to whichever option you got.
Transcript:
A. Showing the basic set-up vs backdashes, ex.chicken wing, ex.headstomp, ex.devilsreverse, ex.headbutt and ex.messiah kick.
B. Showing a corner only set-up from a cr.LP. If Yun blocks or is hit, you will remain on the ground and combo, if he backdashes you get instant air Ultra2. This is less practical and more difficult than the standard set-up.
C. A variation that leads directly into a tick > SPD. Without a block string. You can actually do whatever you like after the j.HK even after inputting the os. This is a safer option if you don't have the timing perfect as it will avoid the unintentional running grab/SPD.
Welp, this changes a lot.
ReplyDeleteI'll try it when I get back home. It seems that the first OS looks pretty hard to do outside of safe jump territory. Would you say that is correct Desk?
ReplyDeleteYou can't actually do it outside of a safe jump. O/S safe jumps abuse the difference in timing between a hit/blocked attack and a whiffed one.
ReplyDeleteNot to mention Gief's whole O/S game took a huge hit when GH didn't knock down anymore.
Only reliable knockdowns are EX SPD, Sweep (good luck w/ that one), neutral throw, and Atomic Suplex.
Dundle: I wouldn't say this changes a whole lot. It's good against backdashes sure, but doesn't work against most reversals.
Notice which reversals this worked on? This slowest ones in the game, Rog, Rufus, Chicken wing.
The math is simple, you have 4 frames of landing delay if Gief attacked.
You have 6 frames of prejump animation (only gief has this).
Earliest O/S ultra 2 can come out is on frame 11.
The corner situation is even more problematic, because who the heck wakes up with a backdash when they're cornered against gief? Only that that'll beat is meaty SPD and good giefs don't go for SPD's in the corner, they go for neutral grabs.
@zxan. Yeah, it has to be pretty tight or you won't actually catch the back dash.
ReplyDeletewhat is the manipulation to do with the stick?
ReplyDeleteJump HK and ??
Thx
Hi desk! too bad you didn't record the inputs! that might helped to understand this OS :(!
ReplyDelete@NapalmC Is there a way to display inputs for the dummy?
ReplyDelete@Fashion Redsou I'm not sure how else to explain it. Immediately after the j.HK, you do the instant air U2 motion (540 from back to up-forward+KKK). Then Zangief will either hit the opponent and the motion does nothing or they backdash and you re-jump ultra 2.
You should. Jump -> 360° (ending up) + HP or HK (still in the air please almost on the ground -> 180° + crJAB (you are moving from up down so is simple (not easy simple) -> 135° or 180° (going up) + KKK + jab again. Will do the video this month (Oct 2013) http://goo.gl/2XbKOR
DeleteDesk, because it has to be tight I believe you are using d/f hk safe jump. Do you know of any other setups? Perhaps from RGB or normal throw?
ReplyDeletejesus it's impossible for me to do. I always get ex rgb when I try it
ReplyDeleteHey man, I don't actually use gief, so I'm not familiar with his guaranteed safe jump stuff. My advice would be to not attempt any follow up and do it nice and early. For practice, stand away from the opponent and jump forward, whiff j.HK and do instant air U2 as quickly as possible.
ReplyDeleteThere's a set-up that allows you to grab EX-psycho crushers and variations after neutral throw and rgb but they rely on your ability to judge the safe jump, without it being guaranteed.
Too tight tighter than a pussy
ReplyDeletewhy the hell is a backdash aerial anyway Capcom? xd
ReplyDelete